Talk:Sambhaji

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sambhaji article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 7 days

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

India: Maharashtra / History Mid‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Maharashtra (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article was last assessed in May 2012.

Military history: Biography / Asian / South Asia Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Asian military history task force
	South Asian military history task force

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

view · edit

Frequently asked questions

Q: Why can I not add "Shri", "Chhatrapati", or "Maharaj" to Sambhaji's name?

A: As per WP:Honorifics and WP:Commonname, in Wikipedia, we refer to people by their commonly used name in the cited academic sources. We do not include titles or Honorifics unless they are commonly used in the cited sources (Shambaji does not fall in this category).
Please note Charles III, where he is referred to as "Charles" throughout, not "King Charles" nor "His Royal Highness" or whatnot. We clearly note Sambhaji's titles in the article, we just don't repeat them each time his name is written.

Q: Why does it say "addiction to sensual pleasures"?

A: That is exactly what the cited sources say, and other sources note allegations that he behaved inappropriately with a Brahmin woman, or may have committed some other offense. Suffice to say, for whatever reason, Shivaji confined him to Panhala. If you know of an alternate theory for that confinement, and have a reliable source, you can add that as an alternative theory, but you cannot simply remove that explanation unless you have very strong evidence that such story is obsolete according to modern scholars.

Q: I believe the article's sources are biased against Sambhaji, why are they being used?

A: Assertions of bias must be backed up by references to reliable sources saying as much, or other highly compelling policy-based arguments. Simply asserting that it is biased is not sufficient to convince other editors.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 14, 2018.

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

"Maharashtra CM wants Wikipedia to correct factual inaccuracies about Chhatrapati Sambhaji". Hindustan Times. February 18, 2025. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis has directed the state's cyber police to approach Wikipedia and request the removal of "objectionable" content regarding Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj.
"'There's limit to free speech': Fadnavis orders action again Wikipedia content". The Times of India. February 18, 2025. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Fadnavis said distortion of history on open-source platforms such as Wikipedia would not be tolerated.
Mrityunjay Bose (February 18, 2025). "Remove derogatory and objectionable reference from Wikipedia about Sambhaji Maharaj: Fadnavis". Deccan Herald. Retrieved February 19, 2025. The references about Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia became a point of discussion after the release of Chhava, a Hindi film on the warrior-king, which was released last Friday to spectacular reviews.
Mustafa Shaikh (February 18, 2025). "Wikipedia gets police notice over 'objectionable' content on Sambhaji Maharaj". India Today. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Following this, the Maharashtra Cyber Police issued a notice to Wikipedia, warning of legal action if the content was not taken down.
Purnima Sah (February 19, 2025). "Remove objectional reference about Sambhaji Maharaj from Wikipedia: Fadnavis". The Hindu. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis on Tuesday (February 18, 2025) took a serious note on the objectional and derogatory content and references about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia and directed the State cyber police to approach the open-source free online encyclopedia to get them removed.
"Maharashtra CM orders police to get 'objectionable' content about Sambhaji removed from Wikipedia". Scroll.in. February 19, 2025. Retrieved February 19, 2025. The state government wrote to Wikipedia after social organisations wrote to it, objecting to the allegedly inaccurate claims about Sambhaji. Some activists also warned of protests if the content was not removed, The Indian Express reported.
"Zee 24 TAAS forces Wikipedia to take action on false content about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj". medianews4u.com. February 20, 2025. Retrieved February 20, 2025. Zee 24 TAAS, a Marathi news channel, has once again proven the power of fearless journalism, launching a high-impact campaign against Wikipedia for hosting derogatory content on the revered Maratha warrior king, Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj.
"4 Wikipedia editors booked over factual inaccuracies about Chhatrapati Sambhaji". Hindustan Times. February 21, 2025. Retrieved February 21, 2025. The Maharashtra Cyber Cell has registered a case against at least four Wikipedia editors for not taking down "objectionable" content on Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj from the open-source encyclopedia, PTI reported on Friday, citing officials.
Abhishek De (February 21, 2025). "Case against 4 Wikipedia editors for not removing content on Sambhaji Maharaj". India Today. Retrieved February 21, 2025. Sources said 4 to 5 individuals were involved in editing and spreading disinformation about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia, which could lead to a law and order situation.
Sharveya Parasnis (February 19, 2025). "Fadnavis Targets Wikipedia Over Alleged Distorted History of Chhatrapati Sambhaji". MediaNama. Retrieved February 21, 2025. Fadnavis did not specify the exact content he found objectionable. However, a quick review through the Wikipedia page reveals statements that may have contributed to the controversy. The second paragraph states that Sambhaji was confined at Panhala Fort by his father, allegedly due to his addiction to sensual pleasures or for violating a Brahmin woman. It also stated that Sambhaji defected to Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb and fought against his own father.
Divyesh Singh (February 21, 2025). "Case against 4 Wikipedia editors for not removing content on Sambhaji Maharaj". India Today. Retrieved February 21, 2025. The Cyber Cell of Maharashtra Police has lodged a case against 4–5 editors of Wikipedia for failing to take down controversial content on Maratha ruler Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj, sources said. Sources said 4 to 5 individuals were involved in editing and spreading disinformation about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia, which could lead to a law and order situation.
"FIR against person who made 'derogatory edits' to Chhatrapati Sambhaji profile on Wikipedia". The Indian Express. February 22, 2025. Retrieved February 22, 2025. Maharashtra cyber police have registered an FIR against a person who allegedly edited the profile of Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia and added content to it. The police have registered an FIR against the user Ratnahastin, who, as per the complaint, added 'derogatory' content to the profile.
Rohit Singh (February 28, 2025). "Wikipedia Tax-Exempt Status at Risk As US Attorney Demands Transparency on Content Moderation". MediaNama. Retrieved February 28, 2025. In another case, Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis recently directed the state's cyber cell to act against allegedly offensive content on the Wikipedia page of Chhatrapati Sambhaji, a historic Indian king. Fadnavis instructed officials to contact Wikipedia and ensure the disputed content was removed, stressing that incorrectly presenting historical facts is unacceptable.

Status update

The controversy surrounding this article seems to have died down now, so hopefully cooler heads can prevail. The fact that we have very few good recent sources that discuss the life of Sambhaji (in the English language anyway, though popular histories of Sambhaji in Indian languages are unlikely to be any better), is obviously a headache for actually improving this article. It still looks like Gajanan Mehendale's Shivaji: His Life and Times is one of the best recent sources on the topic, even if it doesn't directly focus on Sambhaji. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unlikely. Indian judicial processes tend to drag on—often testing our patience. 😄

Justice comes slowly, sometimes painfully, but when it does, it arrives with certainty and vengence."

Mehendale selectively used information to support particular conclusions. Mehendale pretends to be objective but some of his claims are tenuous at best. He just cherry-picks things to suit his agenda. Quite unreliable Xhivetozaragrivropa (talk) 10:42, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Artwork_"The_execution_of_Raja_Shambhaji"

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maharashtra cyber

While they don't name this article specifically, considering this is the one the police previously released statements about, this news article is probably related to this article. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 22:58, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. One more hint from Indian authorities that editing from the WP-pov can get you into severe trouble, also known as chilling effect. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:38, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"He emphasized that safeguarding national security and public order must take precedence over platform immunity or international jurisdiction." My reading is that he's worried that if influential people read stuff they don't like on WP, they might tell other people to go out and smash stuff and people. And that could happen. Should India block WP because of it? India will decide. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:07, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This smacks of when Pakistan did just that over Google's abuse of its search engine. They walked it back a few days later. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 07:24, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Turkey took a bit longer, though. And China. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:37, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial content

Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2025-02-27/In_the_media#Editor_under_pressure_removes_edits_about_Hindu_nationalist_historical_figure talks about controversy, but does not mention which claim in the article is or was controversial... can anyone clarify? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:36, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus, there appear to have been two main statements in the article that were deemed "controversial", despite them having the backing of dozens of scholarly sources going back decades. Both claims you can see in the lede of the article. The first is that the reason for Sambhaji's confinement at Panhala Fort was due to sexual impropriety and likely the rape of a Brahmin woman. The second is that he briefly defected to the Mughal Empire to fight against his father. Silver seren^C 01:31, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There were also objections concerning claims about atrocities committed by Sambhaji's forces, the general quality of his governance, and disagreements over the exact circumstances of his final capture and execution (the last of which is complicated by historical sources providing diverging accounts) _signed,Rosguill ^talk 01:35, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd put in a fair bit of work to try to improve this article, but its still got a ways to go frankly. I'm still not sure the sourcing/framing on the controversial stuff is great, and I imagine we could probably do a better job presenting some of it. I'd started work on a historiography section, which I hoped would alleviate some of the concerns of presenting stuff in WikiVoice. But I stalled out post-war, and had been busy doing other things. If we could work on building up that section, we might be able to meaningfully improve the lead, which is the part that folks are maddest about (although it did go through considerable rework when this first came up). CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 03:52, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Afaik, no media that reported on this said what content was problematic, possibly because Fadnavis never told them. This one [1] guessed a little. I haven't seen seen any attempt in media at a fact-check or similar, but I think "offensive" is the actual problem. I asked a similar question at Talk:Sambhaji/Archive_2#Surge_of_requests_incoming!. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:03, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]